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• Allen Bradley 1333 Manual
• Allen Bradley Frequency Drive Manual
• Allen Bradley 1333 C Series Manual

DATASHEET www.rgbautomatyka.pl www.rgbelektronika.pl. OTHER SYMBOLS: 1333-AAB. 1333AAB, 1333 AAB, 1333-AAB. ALLEN BRADLEY.

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I am the proud owner of a (used) Allen Bradley 1333 DAA 7.5 hp 230v VFD, and even more impressive, I've actually finished reading the manual. I'm going to have it mounted on the wall, inside a cabinet, supplying a 3phase outlet. My mill and my lathe will have power cords with the same type of male plug. In order to use, just plug in the machine of interest, hit the on switch, and away we go.

According to the manual, I need a thermal overload device between the VFD and the motor. Is this correct? If so, what device would give me this kind of protection? Just for reference, the lathe is a 5hp 3phase Hendey, and the mill is a 2hp 3phase Gorton. I am the proud owner of a (used) Allen Bradley 1333 DAA 7.5 hp 230v VFD, and even more impressive, I've actually finished reading the manual. I'm going to have it mounted on the wall, inside a cabinet, supplying a 3phase outlet. My mill and my lathe will have power cords with the same type of male plug.

In order to use, just plug in the machine of interest, hit the on switch, and away we go. According to the manual, I need a thermal overload device between the VFD and the motor. Is this correct? If so, what device would give me this kind of protection? Just for reference, the lathe is a 5hp 3phase Hendey, and the mill is a 2hp 3phase Gorton.More than a 2:1 difference in those two loads.

SOME VFD have the ability to store two groups of settings, swap between them. Others have a detachable plug-in that stores a set of parameters and can be 'cloned' and moved to other VFD, ELSE two of them can be programmed-up and just swapped to switch the VFD's 'personalilty' w/o stepping through program settings. If you have neither, then 'at least' the max-current trip-point should be manually re-set each time you switch machines. With that, you won't need a downstream protective device for current overload. Having such can put a hurt on a VFD if/as/when it trips anyway.

The 'thermal' (sensor) referred to is ordinarily not the 'thermal(ly)' (activated) overload on most machines. Instead, it is an overheat sensor stuck onto, or inside of, the motor itself. Two of those can probably be identical 25-cent thermistors, but will need wiring separate from that of the power-plug. The reason a VFD benefits from them whilst 50/60 Hz non-varying motors are generally 'don't need to care' is that a VFD at the rude and silly extremes of its Hz range can abuse the living crap right out of a motor, heat-rise-wise. You can skip it if you just don't go there.

Or have a good fast nose for the phenolic stink of hot windings. Katou, Maybe you can understand Bill's linguistics, I can't, so I will add my two cents.

I find it incredible that your AB drive hasn't the ability to protect the motor from over current.maybe reread the instruction book. If it does truly require a O/L between drive and motor, all is not lost. A stand alone thermal or electronic overload of the proper size could be installed with the drives RUN (logic) circuit wired through the NC contacts of the O/L.

On a trip this would signal the drive to initiate a simple STOP.no big deal. I would check the manual again.it sure seems like the unit should have a programming parameter for motor FLA which would supply the needed overload protection. The drive is typically configured for the current demands of a single motor. Making the drive available for several motor of different HP ratings will certainly mean the smaller motor will not be protected.unless the unit is reprogrammed each time for the smaller load.sort of a PIA. All VFD's I have seen and used are designed so that they start the load motor.

So you can't just have the VFD sitting there running then with your mill plugged into the vfd use the mill's starter to start the motor. The electronics don't have the ability to handle that load. The vfd needs to do the starting. So, you need to wire the machine motor directly to the vfd then hit the start button on the vfd. Maybe that is what you have in mind but your description of your plans don't sound that way.

Also, most all vfd's do the overload protection for you. The Setup and operation guides for both Toshiba G series and Siemens 440 drives include symbols overload devices between the VFD and the motors. This would be more important in the case of multi motor, single drive installations. Probably a more common situation in industrial material transfer.

For machine tool applications, I could see the VFD being set up for the larger motor load, using the VFD for motor protection, then adding 'fuses' to protect the lesser motor. Breaking a fusable link (CB) will have little negative effect on any contemporary VFD. The drive will fault to a 'loss of load' condition.

No harm anywhere. PS, both the above mentioned drives offer two motor configurations saved in memory. Selectable from the operator panel. All VFD's I have seen and used are designed so that they start the load motor. So you can't just have the VFD sitting there running then with your mill plugged into the vfd use the mill's starter to start the motor. The electronics don't have the ability to handle that load.

The vfd needs to do the starting. So, you need to wire the machine motor directly to the vfd then hit the start button on the vfd. Maybe that is what you have in mind but your description of your plans don't sound that way. Also, most all vfd's do the overload protection for you.Pete has this right!

Connect first, start from the drive, not from the machine on/ off switch! Again, if you try to start a VFD with no motor connected, the VFD will fault. They make them so you just about have to do it right;-). Per maker's website on 'Legacy' product the 230V models went Inactive: Sept 1996, Discontinued: Sept 2001, Obsolete: Sept 2003. Yours should have a date of manufacture somewhere on it pre-dating all of those. Unless you can be certain that the one you have was in-use until much more recently, t'would be a Very Good Idea to search on 'reforming' the electrolytic capacitors.

Also, per page 2-2, the third letter 'A' in 'DAA'. It supports single-phase input, but wants de-rating if that is what you have to use. General rule of thumb is 50%, so a 3 3/4 HP max. That should make chips well enough, but you'll want to set the load limit accordingly to protect the rectifiers and capacitor bank. How would that work? When the larger motor was operating, and protected by the parameters set in the drive, how would the circuit ignore the smaller fuses that were in series in that same circuit? Must be something I'm overlooking.

StuartDownstream fuses or 'thermal' I'm still trying to get time to dig into the manual(s) (more than one) about. Meanwhile, if they ARE downstream, the different value would have to be at the load ends of each cord, not the upside of that common socket, and as all agree - the VFD internal trip limits set to match each load, regardless.and. It MAY be near-as-dammit a moot point. Maker doesn't de-rate the DAA to 3 3/4 HP for single-phase after all.

3 HP only, 50 Hz or 60 Hz. Sure hope you have decent 3-P to drive this kitten. Update; Also is paragraph 2, page 4-5 what is driving your load-side 'thermal' spec? If not, which and where found.

Bill, Huh.don't know what you're trying to say. I don't see how you can take a series circuit and install differing levels of overcurrent protection and not have the lowest value 'pop' first.each and every time. If the drive is configured to trip at 20 amps, how can you install 15 amp fuses downstream and expect that single circuit to protect both at 20 amps and 15 amps.maybe I missed class the day this was covered. StuartThe ONLY thing you have missed is that there are TWO SEPARATE 'series circuits'. He's either going to have: - ONE wall-socket with the VFD back of it, TWO power cords, each with appropriate to-the-load fuses inline or more likely at/near the motor peckerhead or some other convenient entrance to the machine ELSE - TWO wall sockets, each with a fuse between itself and a paralleled connection at the VFD, but only ONE ever connected.

A simple sheet plastic or metal 'lockout' plate recommended to make sure only one CAN be plugged-in at a time. I'd just use a 3PDT switch or relay to not have to mess with the plugs, lockouts OR forgetfullness.but never mind. Further, BOTH of those are only there to meet code. Sane operation sets the drive parameters just below the point that either would trip. Roughly 135% of nominal for plug or cartridge fuses as well as conventional bi-metallic CB's last time I bothered to look. Square-D QO and Sputniks may be less forgiving, and Heinemann magnetics for-sure always were.

Tripping precisely where specified is what the costly buggers were good. Bill You say it so elegantly! Two circuits, side by each, but never at the same time. Exclusive parallel circuits?

My kitchen has two sets of sockets actually marked 'XOR' and A, B, C NOT. A single circuit serves four garbage-disposal motors whose switches control those sockets in a manner that only ever lets ONE be run at a time. The C NOT serves under-counter water boilers that don't mind a bit if their heating-elements are switched OFF for the few seconds it takes to run a disposal.

Allen Bradley 1333 Manual

Water easily stays hot that long. Wasn't just to spare the wiring back to the load-centre. It is dangerous to run a garbage-disposal and not be paying attention to it, so even two at a time, one per-each double-sink, was just not on my menu. Back to the challenge at hand. Wot with the maker-specified de-rating to only 3 HP when on single-phase, AND its age not encouraging pushing that limit, I suspect katou is going to have to allocate this VFD to the Gorton ONLY, then go find a 10 HP unit that can still haul the 5 HP lathe motor - or at least 4 HP of that.after de-rating.

From much earlier threads, ISTR that he does not have mains 3-phase. First, this is a 20 year old VFD, 20 years ago VFDs were not required to have programmable motor thermal overload protection built-in, they had general over current protection based on the maximum drive current rating, so it was up to the user to select an external OL if the motor was significantly smaller. That all changed years and years ago, now all UL listed VFDs are required to provide both the short circuit and thermal over load protection for the motor connected to it. It's just that in 1993 when that drive was made, that was not yet the case.

Also along the lines of age, if it has been sitting unused for more than a year or so, don't expect it to last long. The capacitors lose their properties if left unenergized. There is a procedure called 'reforming' that you can try, it might resuscitate them, but if it's been more than 7 years unpowered, probably not. Good luck with that. 2nd (assuming you want to try using it anyway), NO FUSING on the output of the VFD, that's a great way to smoke your motor. That drive will have NO idea if one fuse blows, and it will just keep pumping current into that single phasing motor until it catches on fire, the winding insulation melts and the short circuit current gets high enough for the drive to see it.

Bad bad idea. Use IEC Motor Protective Switches (MPS) on the output, one for each motor. They provide both the Short Circuit and Thermal Overload protection of the motor in one device. Then add aux contacts on them and wire them in series so that they shut down the drive if either one trips. The MPSs will open all 3 phases if they trip.

Allen Bradley Frequency Drive Manual

Generally this is not good for the drive, but it will only happen if there is an over load, so it's not like you will be opening and closing the switch on the output every day. 3rd, don't open and close those switches every day (if the VFD is running).

Wow, that was a deluge of information. And here I thought I was past the hard part by reading the manual. Yes, Bill has it correct. The VFD will power one outlet. The Lathe can be plugged in, or the mill, but never both. I have single phase to my shop.

Allen Bradley 1333 C Series Manual

I have a 40 amp supply going to the transformer, bucked up to 440, and into the VFD. I planned on using some sort of overload switch, hooked into the emergency stop circuit so that the VFD is not running into an open circuit. I'm just not sure what the heck I should be searching on to find such a switch. That said, I still have to check out Jraef's recommendation in the last post. I plan on setting the overload setting for the derated 3 hp the manual suggests.

The smaller mill motor will be protected by fuses or some such other method. Anyone have a picture they could post of what I should be looking for fuses and this motor switch thingy? I wired in the line to the panel last night to the VFD, now I need to secure the wire and attach the VFD to the wall/cable. Does this VFD have loss of load and loss of line default protection? If not, You might want to consider fusing the input as well as the output.

I would bet by the time you had the correct safety and protection hardware on the panel, your money would be best spent on a VFD with internal protective features. But, If you just want to run the thing.I'm not opposed to uing the old stuff for all it's good for!;-) Might I suggest a second look at the documentation so yuou KNOW what the VFD will do, and even read up on a more contemporary model so you can KNOW what it lacks. Knowledge IS power. But it won't run the meter backwards;-).